Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

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pitzMike
Posts: 8
Joined: 14 Feb 2017, 07:14

Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by pitzMike » 17 Feb 2017, 02:11

Hi All!

I have an Anery with an unusual pattern similar to zigzag/Aztecs. Now I looked up in the morph list and says that this pattern is a result of selective breeding. My question is, does selectively bred morphs will later on become recessive and will manifest in their offsprings? And how does one perform continous selective breeding like let say pied-sided from a normal diffused?

Still got many more things to learn! :| :| :|

Joe Was
Posts: 65
Joined: 14 Nov 2016, 20:23

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by Joe Was » 17 Feb 2017, 23:17

Selective breeding, works with slight variances in traditional genetic traits. It is done over time capitalizing on a large population of individuals having similar variances in a breeding line. By back crossing and re-breeding we can fix the established variance in to a line.

By only breeding say Amel individuals using only the ones with reduced red. Over and over again each time selecting only the offspring with the least red to breed. And, discarding the ones with more red from the breeding line we can aproach an Amel individual that has little or no stand-alone red in it. So, the idividuals from that line are predominantly Orange and Yellow only. This is how we got the Creamsicle Amels.

Genetic trait breeding follows a different sort of breeding pattern. We find a visual trait individual breed it to get offspring that may carry the trait but do not look like they do. We then breed them back to the visual trait parent to get some individuals that do have the visual trait and the others may cary the trait non-visually.

Depending on the mechanics of the genetic trait different breeding options may come into play.

Some, breeding lines have both selective breeding and genetic breeding going on so, different lines may have distinguishing characteristic, as well. That make the same genetic trait from different breeding lines different from one another in minor ways. Bolder, darker, lighter, cleaner. Which may point to additional genetic traits to be isolated or just point to part of a range of variance within that genetic trait.

If it is just the range variance of that trait. Then this opens that trait to selective line breeding. If it is an additional genetic trait/factor and it can be isolated then we have a new trait.

Some traits have more variance than others and this can make the distinction less obvious. Like, the Hypo trait which has a wide range of variance from little to a lot of influance on black being strong or week. Or the Anery trait, which has less range variance so, we don't see a range of red presenting.
Remember, a setup for your animal(s) will in most cases cost you more than your animal. Most, animals eat more than many sources say.

pitzMike
Posts: 8
Joined: 14 Feb 2017, 07:14

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by pitzMike » 21 Feb 2017, 05:02

Hi Joe! Thank you for your comprehensive answer.

So if in my case of having an unusual pattern anery, if I breed this to a (let say) normal, then the offspring may or may not produce a hatchling with the same unusual pattern? And in order to intensify the pattern, I need to select from the offsprings which is beyond normal pattern and then breed it back to their mom? Wouldn't it become a het later on (from selective breeding it will produce a distinct pattern trait)?

Hope you can help me understand more. :)

Joe Was
Posts: 65
Joined: 14 Nov 2016, 20:23

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by Joe Was » 21 Feb 2017, 05:13

Probability not, you will need another of the opposit sex the thas nearly or the same pattern to establisj a line. That is why it takes a large mumber of similar individuals and takes several generations both expensive and time consuming.
Remember, a setup for your animal(s) will in most cases cost you more than your animal. Most, animals eat more than many sources say.

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Shiari
Posts: 868
Joined: 07 May 2010, 20:30

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by Shiari » 08 Mar 2017, 05:33

No, it would never become a het. Het refers to a mutant gene that, when an animal has two copies, it shows the morph and does not with a single copy. You can outcross and get visual offspring in the second generation.

Selective breeding is like in dog, cat, and horse breeds. If you cross a lab to a border collie they are not 'het lab' or 'het border collie'. You can't breed their babies together and get purebred labs or purebred border collies out of them.

Selective breeding deals with polygenic traits rather than a single mutant gene. For example, nose length in dogs is related to a set sequence of genes that can repeat themselves. The more repeats, the longer the nose. Fewer and the face is shortened. How many of these repeats get passed in mixes varies, which is why when you cross something like a pug to a dog with a normal length nose, some of the babies are almost normal length, and some are very flat faced.

Joe Was
Posts: 65
Joined: 14 Nov 2016, 20:23

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by Joe Was » 15 Mar 2017, 18:50

pitzMike wrote:Hi All!

I have an Anery with an unusual pattern similar to zigzag/Aztecs. Now I looked up in the morph list and says that this pattern is a result of selective breeding. My question is, does selectively bred morphs will later on become recessive and will manifest in their offsprings? And how does one perform continous selective breeding like let say pied-sided from a normal diffused?

Still got many more things to learn! :| :| :|


Thinking more on you specific snake. Cornsnakes have lines sold, as saddle variant lines. Such, as - Zigzag, Aztec, Banded/Milksnake, Diamond/Triangle and others. Also, the ones identified, as true genetic patterns like, Motley/Motley-stripe, Hurricane-motley, Diffused, Masked, Tessera and others.

If you really have something interesting?
You, could look at some of the saddle pattern variant lines, for something near yours. And, pick-up an individual of the opposit sex. Start breeding and select for what attracted you, in the first place.

In the first set of offspring or their offspring crosed. Select, the best presenting patterned snakes and back-cross them back to your original parent that had that special thing in the first place. Then do not use that first parent in that line anymore after that. This will set the pattern, if it has been seen in the breeding offspring. Then you will have the beginning of a line that should breed relatively true, to improve upon. By selecting the best only, to breed from.

It helps to start more than one line so, occasionally you can select from more than the single line. To keep the lines genetics from degrading from a limited gene pool. This means you need good record keeping and a way to keep lines together and track each individuals.

You will, also have many offspring that, should not be in the lines to sell or get rid of. Normals, which also, may or may not have some Het traits we sell for a token price like $10 American. Or, give them to kids, at shows, if their parents agree. We also, have wholesale buyers who take whole lots for a few dollars. So, we don't have to feed and clean.

I don't like, to cull animals like, some do but do with plants. We also, need to keep track of feeders and non-feeders or hesitant-feeders. Try to only, breed with good feeders. If you have time, work with the problem feeders and if they become feeders sell them, as pets.
Remember, a setup for your animal(s) will in most cases cost you more than your animal. Most, animals eat more than many sources say.

pitzMike
Posts: 8
Joined: 14 Feb 2017, 07:14

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by pitzMike » 20 Mar 2017, 05:54

Looks and sounds complicated! Just wondering, can you breed an offspring to its clutchmate rather that its parent? Or is it generally not advisable?

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Shiari
Posts: 868
Joined: 07 May 2010, 20:30

Re: Questions Regarding Selective Breeding

by Shiari » 20 Mar 2017, 16:26

You can, but you only want to do that for a couple generations at most before outcrossing. Too much inbreeding leads to poor feeders, poor growth, and poor fertility.


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